M.A.I. editor Bob Sykes talks to Britain's home grown action movie star Gary Daniels about storylines and why he's sick of doing 'B' movies.

MA: 'Fist of the north star' out on the shelf, what's the next step for Gary Daniels in the movie world?

Gary: Right now the next step for me is to produce my next picture. I've already turned down six pictures this year, mainly because i hate all the scripts that i've been given. I've done B-movies for the last three years and it got me where i am today, but i'm really tired of them. I get really disappointed whenever i look at a lot of the movies i've been doing, my heart hasn't really been into them. If i'm not getting any self satisfaction out of them, then why do them?

MA: Do you feel that a lot of martial arts movies lack a certain originality?

Gary: Definitely, and the scripts i've been receiving over the last couple of years have really proven that. i do read one or two good scripts, but unfortunately a lot of dire ctors don't like to shoot the script. So a couple of the good scripts that i've read and accepted haven't been shot the way they were written. That really makes me mad when i accept a job based on a script and then they don't shoot the script.

MA: Isn't there a way around that?

Gary: Yes, and that's to take control of the product. The only way to take control is to become a director or a producer. I'm not ready to direct yet, i've got too much to learn, however, i've found a script now that I love, it's titles "The Ides of March". Additionally, i have a direct who i totally believe in, so i've decided that i'm going to co-produce this one with my director. We are raising the money ourselves, that's the only way i feel that i can get some control.

MA: Tell us a little about "The Ides of March"?

Gary: Basically it's about a group of very high-class assassins who do corporate hits at a million dollars a head. There's nine of us in the organisation, all have their own speciality - reconnaissance, spying, martial arts and small arms. I double-cross the organisation and they come after me and my family. The movie ends in small town, it's almost like a western with the other eight guys coming after me. There's a big showdown. That's it in a nutshell, however there are a lot of twist and turns with each of the assassins having their own unique character.

MA: What made the Ides of March such an exciting script?

Gary: What's I like about the script was that there isn't action in the film every five minutes. In action movies it'a always a good idea put a bit of action in the first five minutes in order to get the audience riveted. When i was reading the script i'd read about thirteen pages into it and there hadn't been an action scene. I thought "Oh-oh, here's our first problem". But once i'd finished the script each one of the charasters was so strong, the dialogue was so interestingly written, I realised this didn't need action, people are going to get into the action and dialogue anyway. I really feel that in any movie you have to care about the characters. With movies made at this level, they sell on the action, so people don't concentrate on the character development and they don't concentrate on the relationship. Hence you end up with great fights, great action scenes, but you don't care about the characters. If that's the case no matter how great the action scene is you "So what?". Now if you care about the character and you're really following them, then just a slap in the face is going to make you jump up and say "Hey, i can't believe he just hit that guy". So what we want to do in The Ides of March, is really focus on the characters. I Love the character of the lead, he's an assassin but he doesn't kill. This is how he gets into trouble with the organisation, he just makes it look like he's killed them.

MA: So when can we expect to see this film?

Gary: Oh, maybe eighteen months, it all depends on how things go. We could be talking a real big budget movie.

MA: We are presently getting a lot of positive feedback from "Fist of The North Star", what other projects have you got unfolding over the next year or so?

Gary: I've completed a couple of films since "Fist of the north star", both of which haven't been released over here yet. One is called Hawk's Revenge, which also had Cass Magda in it, and there's another which i did earlier this year with Sugar Ray Leonard called Riot. Riot is another one of these non-stop action movies, where, unfortunately, they didn't exactly shoot the script as it was written.

MA: Yes, but Sugar Ray and yourself appearing in the same movie it's sure to go down well. When can we hope to see this film in Britain?

Gary: I do think that it's definitely going to attract people. However, i'm not sure whether it's been picked up by an English company yet. Once you finish making a movie you sometimes lose track.

MA: Why is that?

Gary: Because once the producer has finished it, it's handled by the sales department ant the distributors, and from that point the actor often loses track. So often i'm not sure which of my movies have been picked up by British distributors. Britain is now one of the hardlest territories in which to sell movies, especially at this level, mainly because the studios have really flooded the market. They've made more movies in the last couple of years than at any time in history. Now a distributor has a certain budget how much he's allowed to spend on movies for any given territory, and obviously first of all they are going to go for the A-movies because that's where they are going to recoup their money. So they have a limited budget on B-movie they can actually buy.

MA: So would you class Riot as a B-movie?

Gary: Most definitely. An A-movie is a studio picture that have had between fifteen and one-hundred million dollars spent on it. They will have the A-level actors such as Mel Gibson or Arnold in them. If you don't have it's a B-movie. Then again there's Bs, B minus and then Cs.

MA: What would you class yourself as doing at the moment?

Gary: I've done some Bs and B plus. I think that Fist of the north star really had the potential to go to the cinemas.

MA: It was dubbed as being a cross between Mad Max And Highlander.

Gary: It's been dubbed in some countries as a cross between Mad Max and Rumble in the Bronx. In Sweden they billed it as a cross between Mad Max and Highlander. When the comic book was originally written the character was supposed to be a cross between Mad Max and Bruce Lee, that's one of the things that really intrigued me about it, being a Bruce Lee fan.

MA: What do you feel made Fist of the north star so different from conventional martial arts movies?

Gary: It was different. I liked the look of the movie. The director did a good job with the drama, the set design, the production design, but I thought he did a terrible job regarding the action. To be honest I was very disappointed with how the action was shot.

MA: Back to Riot, what was it like working with Sugar Ray?

Gary: Sugar Ray is one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet, he's really down to earth. He's a champion, both inside and outside the ring. We had many people come to the set to meet him and he was accommodating to all of them, not once did he turn anyone away. A great guy and I had such a wonderful time with him. He's really into the martial arts, as you might know, he a real Bruce Lee fan. He was interested in some of our stuff. I remember one day on the set I was talking about leg kicks and he didn't really quite understand, so I did this really light shin kick on his thinh and you should have seen his face. The reaction was a classic, I wish we could have filmed his face, but it was a really light shin kick.

MA: Boxing is really great for developing hand speed, but do you feel it's a little one-dimensional as an art?

Gary: Boxing is a sport with rules, ant the fighters have to follow those rules. Obviously a boxer is not a complete fighter, just like a wrestler is not a complete fighter. It's something that Bruce Lee was preaching a long time ago, that we should become good all-round fighter. I think the way that competition is going nowadays with the UFC and the World Combat Federation, it's creating some of the best all-round fighters, You've now got grapplers who are learning boxing, you've got boxers who are learning to wrestle. So finally Bruce Lee's going to be looking down with a smile on his face since his philosophy is finally coming across. I'm really curious as to what the next stage is going to be. We are witnessing a really interesting evolutionary stage within the martial arts right now.

MA: It is all gelling together, but don't you think that there's always the possiblity of the martial arts becoming a brawl?

Gary: This is something I often talk about with some guys in the States, whenever they mention these great martial artists in the UFC. I don't know if they are martial artists. You see, martial arts isn't just about punching, kicking and wrestling, we have the spiritual side, the mental side, the discipline, the history, there's so much more to it. Now a lot of these guys that I see in the UFC have got the fighting skiils, but when I see them interviewed on TV some of them are real jerks. Now I don't want to mention any names because they might come and hunt me down, but some of them are definitely not what I would call martial artists. I think that there is a difference between a fighter and a martial artist, fighting is just part of the martial arts.

MA: Gary, one question that I've asked a few times which often receives a contrast of replies is, are we fighters because we fight or do we fight because we are fighters?

Gary: I think that you have to have the warrior spirit within you, you have to have the fighting spirit to get in the ring and fight. If you're good or not I commend anyone who gets into the ring. This is why a lot of boxers i believe keep coming out of retirement, because they've got the fighting spirit, it's inside them.

MA: If you could compare yourself with any other martial arts movie star, who would it be?

Gary: We are all comparable, but on the other hand are all individuals. I've got this thing that I call 'ICOM' (individual Creative Open Mindedness), and I believe that one of the most important things in life is to be an individual, not to try to copy or emulate someone. It's OK to have someone you respect and look up to. I always tell my students that the martial arts is a path of self discovery. Ninety-percent of what you learn from the martial arts you will learn from doing it. I can't teach you to jab like all the time. I can teach you the basic principles of a jab but then you've got to find out how to make it work for you. A lot of my life i've looked up to Bruce Lee. I don't want to fight the same as him, I never went to study JKD because Bruce did it, but as a kid he was my inspiration. Going back to your question, i'm going to be compared to the guys at the top, like Bruce Le, Van Damme, Seagal. I Personally find that flattering because these guys have been very, very successful. I don't do Aikido to the extent Steven Seagal does. I feel that Van Damme has only certain limited kicks and not too many hand movements, so I wouldn't really want to be like him, I prefer to be a little bit more versatile, so obviously i'm trying to set my own place, my own standard, my own reputation.

MA: Who would you most like to do an action fight scene with?

Gary: I don't mind doing fight scenes with any good martial artist. You've probably noticed that in a lot of movies they usually like to get these massive muscular guys as the heavies. I often get doubled up with these big WWF wrestlers. I've doubled up with the Ultimate Warrior, I worked with this guy called Ban Vaider who's in "Fist of the north star". These are the hardest guys to work with. Their timing is so different to ours, their reaction is so slow that it's really hard to do a fight scene. When I get my say I get guys who have worked at the Jet Centre, or from the JKD Academy because their timing is more up to what we understand. A fight scene is not really about realism, it's about reacting to each other. Bruce Lee used to say that he never knew what his technique was going to be, since his technique was only the result of his opponent's, and a movie fight scene has to be like that. In Hong Kong they are specialists at that, JC is really the master of that. When I worked in Hong Kong you hear the word 'rhythm' all the time. That's why their fight scenes look so spectacular. In America when doing a fight scene the stunt co-ordinator or the fight director would come on and say "You can't do that, it's not realistic". I'd say, "So what? This is a movie!" If you want to watch realism then watch the news, there's plenty of killings and fights every night. We are here to entartain people. Of couse I'm going to use techniques that I hope seem realistic, because my background is in the martial arts. But there really isn't one person I would like to work with in a fight scene. However, there are probably a lot of unknown guys out there who have got a good sense of timing and can react well to my techniques. If i'm the good guy in the movie, then the bad guy's job is to make me look good. Now that probably sounds vain, a lot of martial artists that come onto a set usually have a little bit of ego, and they often want to prove that they are as good as you or better. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that. When a guy comes in and he has to lose, then he's got to make me look good. I like to work with people who don't mind losing, who don't have big egos, and react o my techniques well.

MA: Do you think that a good bad-guy always makes a movie?

Gary: They say the bad guy should always be the best actor in the movie. When Van Damme made Bloodsport Bolo was one of the things that made that movie. You hatd Bolo, you wanted to see him get his butt kicked, right? The bad guy is very, very important.

MA: As far as martial arts movies are concerned, what do you feel could be done to promote the British film industry?

Gary: The problem is that the British film industry doesn't make any martial arts movie. I don't want ot say that i'm the only British guy out there making movies, i'm sure there's a lot of other guys out there doing it. I would love to shoot a movie in Britain, and I would love to use the martial artists from England. i'm sure that there are a lot of guys who would love to be in it. Additionally, we have some great locations over here. Mal Gibson made the most of it, didn't he?

MA: Have you any plans for yourself?

Gary: To be hornest, I haven't, because up to this point I haven't had the power to make that sort of decision. That's another reason why i'm going into producing. I don't want to be a producer. I think it adda a lot more headaches. I like acting but I've got ot go into producing in order to achieve the perfect final product. In Hollywood the bottom line is the almightly dollar. Until you.ve done a movie that's made a ton of money then no-one is going to give you any respect. I'ms still fighting the sigma of "Oh, he's a martial artists". It's changing slowly because i'm getting involved in better movies and they are surrounding me with better quality actors, so people are finally taking me a bit more seriously as an actor.

MA: Do you ever see yourself doing movies which are non-martial arts connected?

Gary: I've just been offered one. It's not a lead role, i think Meachle Mansun plays the lead in the movie. It's a straight actor role, I play a crooked lawyer.

MA: What's all this I hear about Micky Burns playing the main bad guy in your next movie?

Gary: (Laughing) You must have heard that from Micky. He's got the great look of a bad guy, he'd most definitely be the most handsome bad guy!

MA: What sort of movies do you like to watch?

Gary: I like action movies, the ones with the three Bs: blood, bullets and babes. I Love to see good action if it's done right, but it's got to have a good story to it.

MA: Back to martial arts. Do you intent to progress as a martial artists? Are you going to study more in the way of other styles?

Gary: I need to study more for my own progression. I know that my weakest range is grappling and it's one the areas I admit I need to know more about. I'm very confident when it comes to standing up and punching, kicking, kneeing, etc. I've trained with a couple of grapplers and I've whacked a couple of them, however I know that's my weakest range. I just want to keep learning. One thing that I hope movies will bring to my career is the financial freedom so I can quit working for a year and travel Asia just to learn other styles and systems. That is still one of my dreams in life.

MA: Micky Burns has played quite an important part in your martial arts schooling. When you think back, Gary, which instance spring to mind?

Gary: I had studies what we call Mongolian Kung Fu for three years and taekwondo for four to five years, just studying martial arts in general. I had seen Mick train boxers and always wanted to do that sort of training. When I decided to get involved with the PKA I asked Micky to train me. It was just a different world, the mental side of the training was so much different. Micky said "I've seen you do all these styles of martial arts, but now i'm going to teach you to fight">. Because I had been going taekwondo for a few years and was very competent with the flashy kicks, when I tried to kick Micky he just stepped inside them, and althought he didn't hit me he made me aware of what he could do. I thought "Wow, it's back to white belt again!". Having said that, I suppose that conditioning was the biggest part of it. There were times when Micky would have me bench pressing and while i was doing it he would be jumping up and down on my stomach. On other occasions he would have me on the peck deck machine and he would invite all the guys from the gym to come and have whacks at me. There were some big guys in the gym, all of whom had boxed and done some karate, and Mick would just call them over and make me spar with them. At the time I was just a skinny kid, and I felt quite intimidated by them, but this is what Mick was training me to get over. He would say "What am I training, a coward?"

MA: Did this sort of training also condition the mind as well as the body?

Gary: It made me believe in myself, I would see these guys and they would weigh 220 pounds, I was 160lbs. I found I could hit these guys and it really did a lot for my confidence. As for the body conditioning, he got me to a point that I didn't know was possible.

MA: Why do you think there's a certain lack of this type of training in today's martial arts?

Gary: Because a lot of martial artists don't want to get in the ring and fight. They train in the dojo whre it's a very controlled situation, nobody ever really tries to whack them, no-one ever tries to break their legs with a leg kick, no-one ever tries to knock them out. You react the way you train. If you're going to train light then you'll react light, it's as simple as that. If you train hard, then you will react hard. I don't think many martial artists know about it, they've not yet been exposed to it, if you don't know about it, how are you expected to do it? I was very fortunate that Micky took me on and he shaped me.

MA: You've been exposed to many different spheres of the martial arts. What would you say was the single most important lesson you learned?

Gary: To me martial arts is life and life is martial arts. I can't separate the two. Everything that I've learned from my experiences in life I can apply to martial arts and vice versa. I go back to ICOM, you have to be an individual, you have to be creative. You cannot be stale and stay at the same point in life, you must always be progressing. Still water becomes stale, running water is always fresh. Open mindedness is so important. we can learn from anyone or anything. There's an old saying that I read in one of these kung fu wisdom manuals, it sain "A wise man can learn more from a fool's question, that a fool man can learn from a wise man's answer". It's one of those things that just stuck in my mind forever. We can learn from anybody. If we close our minds and shut everything out then it's going to make us less of a person.

MA: Gary, thanks for the interview, it's been an education talking to you.

Gary: Thanks, Bob.

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Interview by Martial Arts Illustrated, April 1998.
Duplication without express written permission is prohibited.